Monday, March 27, 2006

Breaking the Silence

I know that some of my more myopic readers are convinced I'm "anti-Israel", "pro-Palestinian" and even, heaven forbid, anti-Semitic but nothing could be further removed from the truth. Let me state my position clearly: I not only recognise Israel's right to exist, I believe a strong, democratic Israel is an asset to the region.

But I also believe the root cause of Palestinian violence is the continued denial of that people's basic right to exist and the right to live in their own Nation state.

No one seriously questions Israel's right to defend itself against violence and aggression. But it appears to the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) have become increasingly cavalier regarding responding to Palestinians according to the principle of reasonable response.

A group of discharged IDF soldiers is now speaking out on a website aptly named,
Breaking the Silence, kindly brought to my attention by an anonymous commenter.

There are testimonies of IDF soldiers having served in the Occupied Territories, video-clips, a photo gallery, articles and more. A publications section presents testimonies in downloadable *.doc or *.pdf formats. All material is presented in a measured and tasteful manner. Well worth a visit, in my opinion...

Keywords:
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11 Comments:

At 5:53 PM, Blogger Gert said...

To Why Palestinians Usually Get It Wrong:

As you know, your comments aren't welcome here anymore for reasons you know all too well. Stop wasting your time here. I've never invoked censorship but for you I make a blanket exception, all your comments will be deleted without consideration.

If you have something to say about my posts, then do it over at your place.

Thanks.

 
At 8:00 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

You are pro palestinian and therefore anti Israel.
This is clear.

The proof ?
You adopt the palestinian narrative. The violence exists because of the ocupation. ( Of 1967).
This is the palestinian narrative.
The pro israeli narrative says the root of the violence os because the Arabs never accepted Israel.

This narrative is closer to the truth.

December 1947.

A few days after the UN resolution that did create Israel ( 27 Nov 1947 ).

3 day strike Starts today

Palestine Post Staff

With the 3 day strike called by the arab higher comitee executive due to begin today
Arabs Students demonstrated in jerusalem Yesterday Morning and there was sporadic stonning of buses . At noon two christian poles were fired on , near Damascus Gate one being seriously wounded. In the evenning one bus was stoned and other fired on but there were no csualties. Fearful of being caught in Arab attacks arab families moved out of mekor baruch and romema quarters in jerusalem but some told jewish neighbours they would return when things are quiter.
Meanwhile Haganah Posters in Jerusalem and elsewhere urged people to remain calm not to allow themselves to be provoked and not to molest or in any way interfere with arabs or britons.
Carrying banners inscribed " Down with the nations who voted for the partition " and " Arab Students are ready to fight for a free arab palestine " , several hundred pupils from government and private secondary schools marched from herods gate to the arams al shariff and then via jaffa road to the allenby square yesterday morning. Police and Army Patrols kept the procession under observation but did not interfere.
There were shouts of "Long Live Our Leaders " and " Down with the Partition Crime " as some of the students and Sheik Hassan Abu Saud of the arab higher executive adressed the crowd at the haram esh sharif.
Last night shots were fired at one jewish bus and stones thrown near the mahne Yehuda Market on jaffa road . There were no casualties.
BUSES STONED

Three bus drivers reported that their vehicles had been stoned near jaffa gate and services wich normally go to the gate stopped in Princess Mary Avenue. A few people suffer minor injuries in the stonning.
At noon Alexander Malko ,40, from ain karim village was shot ans seriouslywounded when unknown persons fired on 2 poles near the damascus gate.
While Arab chambers of commerce urged urged all the arabs to observe the AHE`s plea 3 day strike ,Arab Government officials decided to carry on and Arab WD and oil workers agreed -with higher Arab Executive aproval - omn half an hour token stoppages on each of the 3 days from 1130 AM to noon . They will be expected to give one days pay to the arab fund according to the Palestine Arab workers Society.
A number of missionnary schools and girls colleges closed down yesterday and informed their pupils that they would not resume lessons until next monday.

Students ans Lawyers

In a memorandum ofprotest to the board of Jerusalem Law classes the arabs students condmned the partition scheme and stated they would observe the 3 day stoppage . Arab lawyers said they would not attend Military Court Trials.
While the Arab womens Union in Jerusalem called on all women to prepare for the coming " emergency " many Arab housewives were reported to have bought stocks of food for several days . Some Arab shops run out of bread.
In Haifa over 1000 arabs workers in the Consolidated Refineries stopped work and demanded Arab transport for the night shift to and from their employment. Arab and Jewish buses had been previously used by the men. The request is being considered by the police and with a special permit issued for an Arab bus night workers reported as usual.".

This happenned 30 years before the so called ocupation.

Actually in 1929 violence had flared as well as in 1936.

Why ?
Because of the 1967 ocupation ?

Of course not.
Events that took place in 1929 cannot be caused by events that take place in 1967

So the tesis that the root of the violence is the 67 ocupation does ignore that many years before 67 the violence was taking place.

 
At 1:47 PM, Blogger Gert said...

I quote from your comment:

"This happenned 30 years before the so called ocupation.

Actually in 1929 violence had flared as well as in 1936.

Why ?
Because of the 1967 ocupation ?

Of course not.
Events that took place in 1929 cannot be caused by events that take place in 1967."

This is another example of disingenuous reasoning to try and score points. Tension and violence between the Jews and Palestinians had indeed been erupting much prior to 1948 and 1967. The Zionist project goes back to about the turn of the last century and starts gaining momentum after the Balfour declaration of 1917. To many Arabs this unilaterally Western initiative was understandably not acceptable. When ever increasing numbers of immigrant Jews start arriving in the area that was the British Mandate, tensions start to rise. Why is that so hard to understand and why to you is this some kind of proof of Palestinian "evil"? Had such numbers of immigrants (of whatever ethnicity) been arriving in, say, Portugal, similar tensions would have been the result.

It's all very well for us from the sidelines to support Israel and the Zionist project, after all, Israel hasn't been created somewhere in Europe, has it? Has this had been the case, we would have suffered a European Civil War.

Of course the Palestinians must recognise Israel but we can't keep ignoring their legitimate claims either. Nor must we ignore those minority Israelis whose dreams of Eretz Israel encompass a much, much larger territory than the one they currently hold: including parts of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt and of course all of the territory that once was the British Mandate. These people ALSO exist and they feel justified on religious grounds...

 
At 3:56 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Nor must we ignore those minority Israelis whose dreams of Eretz Israel encompass a much, much larger territory than the one they currently hold: including parts of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt ..


This clearly shows your antisemitism.

No one in Israel nowadays seriously does imagine israel does want to expand to egypt.

But you did point out such people as if they relevant in israel politically scene.

When it comes to Hamas.., ( that won the majority of votes..), you ignore they want to expand to the wholle palestine and destroy israel.., when it comes to a few lunatics that believe Israel should occupy Cairo..., you do not miss the opportunity to say these fellows do existy and actually you do magnify their importance in order to proove Israelis are a threat.

The bad bad Israelis must exist .., in order to justify your bias against Israel.

Hitler also claimed the jews were very very bad...
They even raped blonde german girls.

Of course in a commmunity of hundreds of thousands of people it might happen one jew raped a german.

Where is the antisemitism of the National Socialist reports of such events ?

The antisemitism does show up because German propaganda magnify such events.

Same with you.
You magnify the threat of a few Jews that think Israel should occupy jordan.

You magnify such fact in order to proove that the jews are a threat.
It is classical antisemitism.

The bad deeds of a certain group are hightlighted in order to justify a certain prejudice against such people.

Ex blacks smell bad.

People that have a strong prejudice against blacks might claim blacks smell bad in order to justify and rationalize their prejudice against blacks.

In your case you claim the Israelis want to expand to Jordan in order to justify ,rationalize your prejudice against Israelis ( the jews).


As I said when it comes to the palestinians despite the fact that most voted palestinian party wants to destroy Israel.., you downplay such fact.

In other words :

You exagerate the bad traits of the Israelis and you downplay the palestinian threat.


Such kind of reasoning clearly shows your prejudice, your bias.

Britain was already antisemitic in orwells time.
Nothing did ( or will ever ) change.


QUOTE FROM ANTISEMITISM IN BRITAIN




“Well, no one could call me anti-Semitic, but I do
think the way these Jews behave is too absolutely stinking. The way they push their way to the head of queues, and so on. They’re so abominably selfish. I think they’re responsible for a lot of what happens to them.”



This Lady also justify her bias against the jews saying that actually the jews were the ones who behave badly.

Same with Gert.

He exagerate the importance a a few jews that believe israel should expand to jordan in order to justify his hostility towards israel..


Please note that Sharoin did withdraw from Gaza.., Olmert the new PM wants to withdraw from more territories but these facts do not prevent gert from blamimg Israel, israelis because some want to expand to egypt.

 
At 4:06 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

It's all very well for us from the sidelines to support Israel and the Zionist project, after all, Israel hasn't been created somewhere in Europe, has it?


Totally wrong.

For centuries Europe has been plagued with antisemitism.


George Orwell complained about it after the war.

Would make sense for people who dislike the jews to support a Jewish Nation ?
Of course not.

Therefore for Europeans it IS NOT very well to support the Jewish on the contrary.


It is very well to side with the palestinians against the jews.

Europeans never show much sympathy for the jews and you are no exception.

I am the exception.
You are not.

 
At 4:19 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

It's all very well for us from the sidelines to support Israel and the Zionist project, after all, Israel hasn't been created somewhere in Europe, has it?


Totally wrong.

For centuries Europe has been plagued with antisemitism.


George Orwell complained about it after the war.

Would make sense for people who dislike the jews to support a Jewish Nation ?
Of course not.

Therefore for Europeans it IS NOT very well to support the Jewish on the contrary.


It is very well to side with the palestinians against the jews.

Europeans never show much sympathy for the jews and you are no exception.

I am the exception.
You are not.

 
At 4:33 PM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

When ever increasing numbers of immigrant Jews start arriving in the area that was the British Mandate, tensions start to rise. Why is that so hard to understand and why to you is this some kind of proof of Palestinian "evil"?


I never say palestinians are Evil.
I claim the palestinian project of destrying Israel is not legitimate and it is very much alive .

When ever increasing numbers of immigrant Jews start arriving in the area that was the British Mandate, tensions start to rise.

I agree .
One more reason one should support Israel.

The arab atitude is a natural to the establishement of a Jewish state in palestine.

But such reaction would bring any future to the palestinians , the Arabs or the Israelis ?

No, it would not.

Such reaction has meant and will mean a never ending conflict.

That is exactly what an Hamas representative said, a few weeks ago.

When we try to transplant a organ to another the body will react.

The only way to prevent such reactions was to give antibodies to the organism.

If these antibodies were not givemn both the transplanted organ and the host body die.

That what will happen in palestine.
If the host body, the muslin keep reacting against the establishement of a jewish state in palestine they will destroy israel ans will be destroyed in the process.

The only way forward was not to strenghten the muslin , palestinian reaction against Israel.., but the other way around : To support Israel and try to convince palestinians and the Muslim surrounding countries Israel was there to stay.

if that had been done in 1948 by instance today we would have peace in palestine.

If america had deployed the US army in Israel..., in 1947..., the muslim reaction against Israel would had not take place.., the arab countries would not have dared to invade israel in 1948..., and today 2 states would be living side by side in peace.
The way forward was not to strenghten those who want to destroy Israel.., but to convince them israel is in palestine to stay.
The problem is that Israel is the jewish state and as a Jewish state it is singled for criticism but every single that does not like the jews.

 
At 4:55 PM, Blogger Gert said...

Solitario:

This clearly shows your antisemitism.

I'll deal with that at the end.

No one in Israel nowadays seriously does imagine israel does want to expand to egypt.

There are indeed a minority of radical Jews who want to restore Israel to its biblical borders. There are also those, and quite few too, who want a one-state solution.

But you did point out such people as if they relevant in israel politically scene.

They aren't particularly relevant, true.

When it comes to Hamas.., ( that won the majority of votes..), you ignore they want to expand to the wholle palestine and destroy israel.., when it comes to a few lunatics that believe Israel should occupy Cairo..., you do not miss the opportunity to say these fellows do existy and actually you do magnify their importance in order to proove Israelis are a threat.

Hamas "claims" one thing, then does another. They have no serious intention of destroying Israel, nor the capacity. The "destroy Israel" is a rhetorical rallying cry, not held by the majority of Palestinians. Extremists exist on both sides, how many times have I repeated this here.

The bad bad Israelis must exist .., in order to justify your bias against Israel.

Hitler also claimed the jews were very very bad...
They even raped blonde german girls.

Of course in a commmunity of hundreds of thousands of people it might happen one jew raped a german.

Where is the antisemitism of the National Socialist reports of such events ?

The antisemitism does show up because German propaganda magnify such events.

Same with you.


“Well, no one could call me anti-Semitic, but I do
think the way these Jews behave is too absolutely stinking. The way they push their way to the head of queues, and so on. They’re so abominably selfish. I think they’re responsible for a lot of what happens to them.”



This Lady also justify her bias against the jews saying that actually the jews were the ones who behave badly.

Same with Gert.


It is very well to side with the palestinians against the jews.

Europeans never show much sympathy for the jews and you are no exception.

I am the exception.
You are not.


Firstly, calling someone anti-Semitic because he or she opposes some of Israel's tactics and attitudes is akin to calling them a Nazi, which you've almost done, a little higher up.

I therefore invoke Godwin's Law.


I've allowed all your repetitive and self-obsessed comments here, yet the only comment I posted over at yours, you chose to delete.

You come across as a simpleton with reading and writing difficulties and a clear unwillingness to debate by instead endlessly repeating your "points". You're a black and white "thinker" who's convinced he's right and all others are anti-Semites.

I pity you. If your behaviour here is indicative of how you sail through life in general, then it's a miracle you haven't ship-wrecked yet.

If you're looking for a hobby, I suggest philately...

Further references to my perceived "anti-Semitism" will not be published here anymore. You've been warned...

 
At 6:10 PM, Blogger Gert said...

Here's Godwin's Law...

 
At 12:08 AM, Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

ok. I am not the first one you do not publish.
It shows more people have the same opinion i do.

 
At 2:22 PM, Blogger Gert said...

hALL your comments have been published here, without A SINGLE exception. The only comment I posted over at your blog was rejected. Now please do go and f**k yourself.

You are a reactionary Internet troll, a bit like your friend WPUGIW.

 

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