Saturday, April 15, 2006

AfterDowningStreet Petition on Iran

Whilst I'm pretty certain that an attack on Iran is far from imminent, the sabre rattling goes on and the military option "remains on the table". As another blogger put it: it's entirely possible that both parties will eventually talk each other into the use of force. This would be an even bigger mistake than the invasion of Iraq and for very similar reasons.

I'm not a great believer in petitions but every little helps and AfterDowningStreet.org have now lauched an appeal to all who oppose military action in Iran.


Sign the petition opposing attack on Iran
























Keywords: , , ,

14 Comments:

At 7:52 PM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

That's ok after the First Iranian Nuke falls on Euorope There wont be a need for Action in Iran. Better start digging your Underground Safe house.

oh wait I forgote those Nukes are for peacfull purpesses.
http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=42002&NewsKind=Current%20Affairs
Iran: Israel "on the road to being eliminated'

Other News sources:
"Iran: Israel will be annihilated"

"PRESIDENT Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has issued Israel with a veiled threat of a nuclear attack, describing it as a "rotten, dried tree" that would be annihilated by "one storm"."

The only reason I say Eu and not Israel will be the first is because Israel has the ability to strike back, while other countries don't (Poland for example).

 
At 8:03 PM, Blogger Sophia said...

Gert,

I will sign the petition but I don't believe in petitions. I believe in actions like the ones organized by the anti-war movement in 2003. I marched on february 15th 2003 and I think we should march again massively against the next war.

 
At 10:29 PM, Blogger Richard said...

Gert,

I've signed ot too, for what it's worth.

oleh yahshan,

They don't have any nukes.

They want to work towards enjoying nuclear energy, like so many other countries already do.

The current Bush/Sharon/Blair, extremist arsehole-type in charge at the moment -- won't be for long.
His own will see to that.

If you're not a European, leave it for us Europeans to worry about. Don't knock yourself out on our behalf. If you are European, then you should have more sense and know better than to believe the same old, same old shit.

 
At 9:19 AM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Richard,
Last time I checked Sharon wasn't doing very much.

And no I am not European, and I do worry. Just like the Eu like to stick it's nose anywhere it can, I have the right to do the same.

Should I just Ignore the Iranian President?? Or maybe we should offer him a small Token. WE can put Checoslovakia back together and offer that and Get "Peace in our Times" - It worked once it should work again.

Can you explain his statements that I quote here?? or is that also for peacful purpesses?

 
At 2:46 PM, Blogger Gert said...

Oleh:

1. Iran flatly denies wanting to develop nuclear weapons. Personally I believe they will want them in the longer term.

2. Currently they have only just begun enriching to 3.5 w% U235, not the 85 - 90 w% required.

3. They haven't even got a reactor up and running (but for a Uranium bomb that wouldn't be necessary. For Plutonium, the Bushere light water reactor isn't suitable at all).

4. Experts (US) believe Iran could be 5 -10 years away from the first bomb, even with "all the stops out".

5. We don't know about their delivery systems: have they got long range missiles reliably capable of delivering a non-conventional warhead?

6. Europe and US have collective security; NATO. This means that all 26 members, even the many that don't have nuclear weapons, are covered by the collective nuclear umbrella. Why on earth would Iran want to attack Poland anyway???

If ever there was a reason for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons, it's exactly for the same reason Israel did so (in complete secrecy): for deterrence. Iran is completely surrounded by nuclear states or hostile troops, from all sides.

 
At 3:19 PM, Blogger Sophia said...

Gert and Richard,

I think also that we should sanction representatives in our governments who decided to go to war.

 
At 3:53 PM, Blogger Gert said...

Sophia:

Agreed, but HOW???

 
At 4:01 PM, Blogger Sophia said...

By not electing them next time !

 
At 4:54 PM, Blogger Richard said...

oleh,

I can only suggest you read my post again, but more carefully this time.

Gert,

In the long term, they probably will. As will others as time goes by.

We [the UK & US] sowed the wind years ago. So far we've avoided reaping the whirlwind - yet we still have loonies hell bent on sowing more seeds.

Sophia,

Many more people voted against Blair, than voted for him. Unless our electoral system is sensibly sorted out, this sort of sick joke is unfortunately set to be repeated - repeatedly.

 
At 4:58 PM, Blogger Sophia said...

I also have this link for a Stop the War poster.
http://www.counterpunch.org/poster.html

Now I am going to share with family and friends a middle eastern Easter meal (Lamb, Hummus, Tabboulé...and nuts and date cookies for dessert) and surely the looming war against Iran and the state of things in Palestine will be in the conversation.

 
At 8:43 PM, Blogger markfromireland said...

Hi Gert;

Another resource for you being lazy I'll just paste in some of what I said over at Richard's place:

Here's a URL to the Union of Concerned Scientist presentation on Bunker Busters at the end of the presentation there's a menu of further presentations.

They've got a variety of material on a heap of topics. In your spare time* yuo migh like to take a look. I urge your readers to visit that presentation and then spend a while clicking around the site. When engaging with opponents or trying to get people to come off the fence it's always helpful to be able to make factual arguments. That's a good resource.

 
At 12:29 PM, Blogger Gert said...

Mark:

It is a good resource and many thanks for pointing it out to me.

 
At 1:27 PM, Blogger Oleh Yahshan said...

Gert,
how can you state that they deny developing a bomb and at the same time talk about the fact that they are at least 5-10 years away from developing a bomb??

"We don't know about their delivery systems: have they got long range missiles reliably capable of delivering a non-conventional warhead?"

umm I guess you never heard of the Shihab missles!
"Iran poses the biggest threat in the region with its Shihab missiles. The Shihab-4 missile has a range of up to 2,000 km, which means it could reach both Turkey and Israel's vital cities, according to Turkish and Israeli intelligence reports, western news agencies reported." -
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2001-07/30/article8.shtml

2000 KM is enough to reach Eastern Euorope, Including Poland. On that note the reason I say Poland is becasue Iran See's Euorope in the same light it sees the rest of the non-muslim world. And it will sooner take out the EU than risk Attacking a country that might fight back (maybe I should have said Franch - who BTW - are not part of NATO). Also Is he going to risk destroying Jerusalem?

 
At 5:47 PM, Blogger Gert said...

I do not believe Iran is currently seeking to obtain nuclear weapons. If they were, it would take 5 - 10 years. These two statements aren't contradictory as you imply with poor logic.

France is a fully paid up member of NATO (look it up). Where you're confused is that it makes an exception regarding its nuclear arsenal (Force de Frappe Independente) which is not directly under NATO command. That doesn't mean France wouldn't come to its allies aid: it simply means it reserves the right to independent judgment on the use of its nuclear weapons.

And your Polish connection remains as phatasmagorical as ever.

 

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